So Disappointing…
All is not sunshine and roses at Great Cakes Soapworks – the batch of Red Rock Canyon soap that I made several weeks ago has bits of undissolved lye throughout. Ugh. It was so beautiful too! I re-created the batch I made last year, only this time I was ready for things to move fast, and I was able to swirl in the two colors without any problem:
Except, somehow I didn’t get the lye stirred into the goat’s milk very well. So frustrating!! The only way I know how to make a soap with fresh goat’s milk as 100% of the liquid is to freeze it into cubes, and add the lye directly to the frozen milk cubes. I’m not entirely sure, but it seems like the problem might be not stirring it well enough (or fast enough?) when I first pour the lye over the milk. I’ve had this problem before with goat’s milk soap, but never this bad. There are white spots on every. single. bar. If anyone has suggestions on how I could do this differently without scorching the milk, I’m all ears!
Meanwhile, Clean the World is about to receive another box of soap!
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This is just a suggestion Amy…as to I don’t use milk all that often in my soaps. But I use the same method as you. I would substitute maybe 1/3 (or less) of you milk and use water. This water I would add your lye to and then stir until it’s dissolved. At that point, I would add your milk cubes and stir them until they are melted. This way you are certain that your lye has melted…but you are retaining all the good benefits of having your milk in your soap.
Thanks, T.A. I hate giving up some of the milk, but I might have to make a small sacrifice so I don’t end up throwing out any more batches!
Sorry that happened! I do milk soaps the same way, Amy. The problem may be that the milk was still too cold when you added it to the oils. NaOH doesn’t dissolve as well if it’s cold. So try to let it warm up a bit more and stir again before mixing with the oils. T.A.’s idea may work, but there is a point at which a solution of NaOH will become saturated and no more of it will dissolve. Adding all your NaOH to a small amount of water may also leave you with some that is undissolved. But then when you add the milk, I guess that would take care of it. Good luck!
@Ruth – You may be on to something!! Very good advice – thank you!
No good words of advice,but I do feel for you. 🙁 I know how disappointing it can be and all I can think of when something like that happens is $$$ all the wasted oils. Ugh!
Thank you, Michele… Fortunately, I see it as yet another opportunity to donate. LOL!
I had this problem a while back Amy, and it totally sucks! I feel your pain. The reason the lye isn’t dissolving properly is because the mixture is too cold. I would recommend only freezing half of your milk into cubes, and sitting the whole container in an ice-water bath. Then add the lye slowly … add a little, stir a little. Once all your lye is mixed in, let it sit for a good 5 minutes or so, stirring every once it a while, and it should be fully incorporated. xx
In my 100% milk based soaps, I pour my lye solution through a fine mesh sieve to avoid just that. Never fails me
That really sucks, I would be mad at myself too, the higher your expectation the worse it hits. Well, at least you can turn it into something good still in other use!
Oh, the wealth of information here is so wonderful! Thank you all so much! Glad to know I’m not the only one who’s had this problem!
Make sure the sieve is made of plastic. Lye will react with nickel or whatever other meddles sieves are made with
Oh Amy … I think I might have cried when I saw those white bits in such a gorgeous soap! Milk soap can be so … I dunno … gruelling. LOL. What I’ve done that seemed to work great (and gave me a nice light soap) is in addition to freezing the milk, have it in a shallow mixing bowl sitting on top of another shallow mixing bowl that contains an ice bath. Add the lye slowly and keep stirring throughout. You’ll find that the lye/milk actually stays quite cool … maybe even “too” cool depending on how warm/hot you like to soap. Eventually everything dissolves and you end up with a bright yellow (but not burnt) lye solution.
HTH!
Karri
Have you tried putting your goat’s milk frozen cubes through the blender before mixing with the lye? The milk would be completely melted a lot sooner making it easier to stir and allowing the lye to come into contact with more of the milk (since there would be less milk tied up in frozen form).
@Karri – I appreciate your concern! And your advice!
@Elisha C – No, I have not tried that. Have you? Sounds like it could work though!
I haven’t tried it with ice in soapmaking, but it is the same idea as when I grate my beeswax before melting it. It dramatically increases the available surface area for heat transfer, and the whole process is so much smoother and easier. You should have a lower likelihood of scorching/curdling (not sure the appropriate term) your milk too, because when the milk is chopped up, that extra surface area of the ice is going to absorb a lot more of the heat of reaction intially (as opposed to having a freezing core inside a chunk that can’t cool your reaction until the outer cube is melted). So thermodynamically speaking, you “should” see a quicker and cooler (lower maximum temp) reaction with the crushed ice as opposed to cubed ice. Hope this helps! I would be very interested if anyone has or does try it to hear how it works. Good luck!
Elisha’s explanation (above) makes a lot of sense and I think is why breaking the frozen ice into chunks first also seems to work. And “ice milk” breaks up really easy after a few minutes out of the freezer. So I just freeze mine in one big chunk in a freezer bag … lol.
I use a ss strainer- only soap 100% gm pretty soap 🙂
@Jennifer – Thank you! Seems a strainer is a good fail-safe way to go!
I stumbled onto this post while searching ‘Making Goat Milk Soap’. I know it’s an old post, but I have just started making goat’s milk soap (with 100% fresh, frozen goat milk; no water) so I’m really learning from the comments made by you more experienced milk soapers 🙂
I’m a little confused about a couple of things though:
1. – At what point in the process is the strainer used?
2. – If the lye is mixed into a frozen clump of goat’s milk (not shredded or crushed goat’s milk) and it eventually dissolves, albeit unevenly at first, won’t the goat milk/lye mixture still turn out okay if you let it sit a little while? Or is there something about the timing and evenness of the initial touching of the lye and milk that is the ‘trick’ to doing this successfully?
3. – I’ve only made unscented goat’s milk soap. Does adding fragrance cause any problems other than the normal things one has to watch out for (seizing, discoloring, ricing)that are associated with a particular fragrance?
4. – If I want my goat milk soap to stay light-colored, is adding Titanium Dioxide the best way to do that?
Thanks so much!
@Linda – No problem at all! 1. I tried using the strainer and the lye solution was too thick, so I haven’t been using it. 2. I’ve discovered that you really can let it sit for awhile – and sometimes it never heats up past 75 degrees! I’ve had to apply heat to the goat’s milk/lye solution just to get it up to about 85-90 degrees. This has been the best solution – making sure the lye solution is warm enough to dissolve the lye. 3. Fragrance will affect goat’s milk soap the same way as regular soap. I haven’t noticed any differences. 4. I would say YES.
Linda…to answer #4…once you’ve poured your soap into the mold, instead of covering it and letting it sit overnight, put your mold in the fridge. This will keep your soap from overheating and turning burnt orange in color. Mine is usually a creamy ivory color. I don’t add titanium dioxide or any other colorant.
I’m chiming in with a question too (though I know this is an old post). I’ve made a couple batches now of goat’s milk soap. The lye gets to a point where it looks dissolved in the liquid. I mix and mix and mix…but when I pour it or inspect some on my spoon it still looks like there are some small granules of it. No amount of waiting seems to get it to dissolve…I’ve gone ahead and mixes it with the oils…I don’t have any visible signs of lye in the bar when I cut it. It’s looked fine…do you think the lye as it saponifies dissolves? Does mixing it with the heated oils help the rest dissolve? Should I be worried. I can’t see any signs of lye in the finished soap (still waiting for it to cure so I can use it and test it) but it worries me that i can still see what looks like small granules in my milk-lye mixture before I pour it.
@Jennifer – I believe the solids you are seeing in the lye solution is just saponified milk fats. That’s why there isn’t a problem with lye in the finished soap.
I use to have the problem with my gm soaps getting white spots too.
I fixed my problem by boiling the milk for 30 seconds before i freeze it..Dont ask me why it works but it does..
@jaffo – Thanks for the tip! I’ll have to try it!
I made 100% olive oil goat milk soap two weeks ago. One day after cutting, white spots began appearing. I was mystified until I stumbled upon Amy’s post.
Would re-batching at this point more fully incorporate the lye, and banish the white spots? Also — undissolved lye — that doesn’t sound safe. Is it? That’s the other reason I’d like to hot process this, and hopefully cause all the lye to react with the oils. Any thoughts? Thanks.
I just cut another 3 kg gm soap block and all perfect (no white spots)
Got this tip (as described above) from a market soap seller about 12 months ago..
She explained that boiling the milk changes the chain structure of the milk and in turn prevents white spots.Well something like that anyway.. Works for me 🙂
@Ceriseanne – Rebatching would definitely solve the problem – if you care to go to the trouble. Undissolved lye is definitely not safe! That’s why I donated my soap to Clean the World. They rebatch soap and send it off to third world countries to help fight diseases.
@jaffo – I just tried boiling the milk this week, and my Creamy Castile soap turned out great! I think I will continue to use this method – thanks so much!!
I had a different problem with goat milk and lye.
The lye dissolved ok, but by the time it melted the frozen milk, the temperature wouldn’t come up past 64. (my recipe said 110 for both lye mixture and oils).
Stupidly, i stuck it in the microwave which resulted in a gooey dark yellow color and eventual volcano-like oozing after I combined with the oils.
Is freezing the goat milk necessary?
@Shohola – I’ve had that issue before too. If your oils are warm enough, say 110 degrees or so, you can still make soap with 64 degree lye solution. However, if you’d rather not have to shock the soap into saponifying, just use a hot water bath in the sink to heat up your milk & lye solution instead of the microwave. And yes, I still think it’s best to freeze the goat’s milk first if you’re going to apply the lye directly to it or it will scorch.
I’m glad I stumbled upon this blog! I just made my first goat milk soap yesterday, and when I went to cut it, there were white spots everywhere! Is it safe to assume that this is lye? I’m not sure what else it could be…I did notice that the lye took a long time to dissolve, and I added it to frozen milk. Thanks for all the ideas, I think I will dissolve it in water next time!
@Sara – If they are white and crumbly, then yes, probably lye. If you can keep stirring the lye solution continuously, and make sure the temp gets above 90 degrees, you should be able to dissolve the lye completely. If you need to heat it up, use a hot water bath in the sink.
Stumbled across this doing a search for info on Titanium Dioxide. We freeze our soap in ice cube trays, I add my lye into the frozen milk in an ice water bath it never gets above 65 deg. It does take a bit of time and stirring & I strain out a small amount of undissolved lye. (a teaspoon in a 50# batch) My oils are barely warm enough to stay melted about 65% hard and 35% soft oils. I also discount the milk about 20% (varies with recipe) Trace is slower than normal, and it goes immediately in the fridge or freezer upon pouring, gel phase is prevented. 36-48 hrs to unmold but the EO scents stay stronger and of course the GM prevented from burning. Kelly Bloom did a write up on Low temp CP soap here
http://www.soapalooza.com/myfiles/pdf/Low-Temp-Soapmaking.pdf
Are you certain the white specks are undissolved lye?
We had some like that recently, and I poured some vinegar on it, and nothing happened. If it was lye, it should have bubbled furiously!
Perhaps it’s unsaponified butterfat or coagulated milk solids, instead?
If it were truly undissolved lye, you’d have to hazmat the batch. But from my vinegar experiment, I’m convinced that it was only an aesthetic problem in our case, NOT a safety issue. (You would NOT want to be putting soap with undissolved lye on your skin!)
@Jan – If unsaponified butterfat or coagulated milk solids could crystallize, I might believe it was one of those. Could they turn into a salt? That’s what this is like.
“Could they turn into a salt?”
Sounds like a good guess.
There would have to be anions in there somewhere to react with the sodium in the lye. Chloride would taste salty, and my “powdery white things” did not. (DO NOT try tasting it until AFTER you have tried the “acid test” with vinegar or lemon juice! Lye burns on the tongue would NOT BE FUN!)
I’m guessing it may be gypsum (calcium sulfate), which would be harmless.
Again, I’m thinking this is more of an aesthetic concern than a health and safety concern. Give it to friends and relatives, or put it in your “markdowns” bin.
I agree with Jan… for sure not lye, but different salts which could crystallize. Just try to keep some NaOH on open air! It does not stay NaOH to long, not stable because highly reactive- in a very short period you won’t see it anymore. It doesn’t behave like salts, staying on the surface of your soap bar without doing anything… 🙂
I got white lye spots after HP! What could have caused it? I’m stumped. The recipe is good. The heat source often gets too hot. They lye is fully stirred and rests for over an hour. The lye and oil are within 15 degrees. I stick blend thoroughly. It goes theough gel. The only things I could think of are: that the water is oversaturated ( I do a 30% water discount), or there is a too-hot heat source, or my stick blender isn’t cutting it…
@Rachel – Doesn’t sounds like lye then. Could be a salt that is forming? Others commenting on this post don’t think the spots in my soap are undissolved lye either. Since I’ve switched my process when making goat milk soap I haven’t had any issues. Now I do a really strong water and lye solution – nearly 1:1, then add the other half of the liquid as goat milk to the oils and stick blend it in before adding the lye solution. I use less goat milk, but at least I have consistent results!
Put some vinegar on it. If it is lye, the vinegar should bubble furiously. If it doesn’t bubble, it isn’t lye.
If it isn’t lye, it is probably not unhealthy; just an aesthetic issue.
I just had this happen to me. Never had a problem until today, but I switched to lye flakes and they dissolve slower then the beads. So the combination of frozen milk and flakes must have been the culprit 🙁 So very dissappointing.
I feel your pain, Claudia!!
I have been making GM soap for about 4 years and I just saw those white spots in two batches that have been aging for a month. They are mostly on the surface of the soap, looks like salt. They were not on the surface when I poured it or cut it, they have shown up later. I also use frozen milk in an ice bath and pour the lye in slowly, been doing it the same way with the same recipe for years. Same oils, same lye….I am off to go and pour some vinegar on a bar. I have a hard time believing that it is lye.
Amy, I just stumbled across this blog, and I am so glad I did. I use all goats milk, and I noticed the same white spots with one of my soap batches, and fear it may be lye. I thought about dissolving my lye in water too, and it sounds like it works for you. So, are you saying you add the same ratio of water and lye to dissolve your lye, and then subtract that from your goats milk?
@Cindy – Yes, just slightly more water than lye. Here’s my most recent video: https://youtu.be/Nurs8jX6jPo
Ohhhh do I feel for you! This recently happened to me on literally the best looking batch of soap I’ve ever created! It is disappointing considering that’s 13 bars down the drain when I have my first farmers market to attend in 2 weeks and low on stock. I am so glad I came across this post however because I have searched the Internet high and low to determine what caused this..now I know! Happy future soaping!
I love reading all of the tips and tricks as I just had the same problem with my soap. I had low soap making temps and it didn’t look like all of the lye dissolved in the milk….I almost got my strainer out, but didn’t. I should have.
I just have one concern though. The lye-specked soap shouldn’t be donated as it will burn the skin of the folks who use it.
One person mentioned that the soaps get rebatched before they ship them out.
I know this is an old post but thought I would share.. I’ve had this same problem when not waiting long enough to add the lye/goats milk mixture. With my bowl in an ice/water bath. I start with frozen cubes and SLOWLY add the lye a tsp at a time, spoon stir for a min repeat. This usually takes 10 mins. Theb i stir for another 10 min at least. Most people don’t realize there is NO rush when mixing lye into milk. The common misconception is that it will burn. It won’t when you add the lye slowly. I have left my milk solution on ice for an hour and it’s still creamy white. So take your time and stir stir stir.